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Frontosa.com is dedicated to the discussion and husbandry of African Cichlids especially the Frontosa/Gibberosa species.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:59 pm 
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tr6";p="23661 wrote:
i did a 50% water change.. maybe i shocked them, maybe i forgot the PRIME, who knows.


Well on that note, I guess this is the time and place to tell everyone I also had a big loss about 2 weeks ago. It was a real bummer because I made it through the move with no casualties, but unfortunately one day I did a water change on my Mpimbwe tank which is the 150 gallon, and I can't remember why, but I had to take down the water level after filling it, but then decided it was too low, and added a bit extra. After all was said and done I probably did about 50% and I know for a fact I forgot the prime, now at my old place this would've been ok (relatively speaking) as the chlorine level is very low. Well unfortunately I didn't realize till it was too late that I had missed the prime, so I took the misses out for a very nice day looking at some of the very large and beautiful Waterfalls which are very close by, as well as some great scenic views of the Columbia. Came home in a good mood, looked in the tank, only to find 4 casualties, and one near death which I lost shortly after. That was 5 of 8 gone in less than 4 hours. Perfect health before. I did not post this earlier because I didn't know if the other three would make it, whether due to residual effects, or fighting, and I didn't want to post about a tragedy that just kept getting worse. One fish (smaller male) was nearly beaten to death by day 1 or 2 after the event. Moved him. Then about 1 1/2 weeks later the sole female was getting too beaten, so I swapped the only large male left into the small tank and the one that was beaten early on back in with the female (this was about 2 days ago). Now the female and small male are ragged from fighting the first night, at which time I put in my fryeri female as a dither, and things have calmed down. So goes my saga, and my direct understanding of yours TR6. It sucks, It Sucks, it sucks. It's has me on high alert with all my water changes now, and lesson learned about the water here. But what a harsh lesson.


Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:59 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:05 pm 
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Me, I'm so sorry for your loss also :( I would be very upset if that occured with my Mpimbwe or Burundi tanks.

Bruce

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 Post subject: Re: Fish smell.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:29 pm 
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Thank you Bitterman. As upset as I was, and still am, my wife was the most heartbroken, those were her "Mpimbpimb". Especially the largest male, which she loved dearly. I am thankful I still have three though, and I will rebuild the colony as soon as funds allow. I just hate losing such wonderful creatures. They made it through so much, and then to lose them so fast. =/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:33 pm 
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Oh no ME really sorry to hear that but these things happen and dont beat yourself up about it. Be a new year soon and new start for you and your good lady in your new home in a fantastic part of the world.


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Sorry for your loss of Mpimbwe ME.
I'm sure you will grow the colony soon, and will always appreciate the ones that did survive even more.

I have always preached NOT to do huge 50% water changes.
These are not discus, most fish are not discus.

the risk from the stress that may come from the water company making changes is not worth it.
I doubt there is any significant change in growth from doing 50% vs. 25% water changes.
And again the fish would be able to handle what ever change the water company did with a small water change.
I'd much rather over filter, understock and keep the water changes at 25%.

One of these days I will hook up a automatic drip system, and not even bother with water changes.

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My reason for doing 50% water change weekly is to lower the nitrates. I have not found another way to do it so far since Purigen does not work much and I have just added some moss ball in hope this will absorb nitrates, so I will see.

If I had any doubt on my water I would be using my 50 gallons per day RO unit. That would filter anything out, even poison.

You can find these units on ebay for around 79$ us and they work well. I had the portable unit and could connect it to any faucet, then all I needed was a 45 gallons or more water storage baril. Paid 20$ for 2 of these 45 gallons for food grade containers.

that was a 100% safe setup and not even poison or anything could get out of this from the tap water. Of course that was extremely soft water and needed to be reminerilized. The water came out of this with a TDS of 3, which is practicaly 0 of anything, just pure water.

I lived 8 years in California but never had fish there. Glad I was not exposed to such dramma.





tr6";p="23706 wrote:
Sorry for your loss of Mpimbwe ME.
I'm sure you will grow the colony soon, and will always appreciate the ones that did survive even more.

I have always preached NOT to do huge 50% water changes.
These are not discus, most fish are not discus.

the risk from the stress that may come from the water company making changes is not worth it.
I doubt there is any significant change in growth from doing 50% vs. 25% water changes.
And again the fish would be able to handle what ever change the water company did with a small water change.
I'd much rather over filter, understock and keep the water changes at 25%.

One of these days I will hook up a automatic drip system, and not even bother with water changes.


Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:58 am
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:12 am 
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Sorry to hear about this. I know they were your pride and joy.

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2500 gallons and growing :D

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." –Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers


Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:12 am
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horrible stories.
I an sad to hear either of them. Sorry for both of Your losses.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish smell.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:00 am 
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Thanks again everyone,

I just hope these stories help keep others from making the same mistakes. This is my first ever chemical related catastrophe of keeping fish, and I have kept them off and on since age 4 or so. TR6, whether through years or sheer numbers I am sure has much more knowledge and experience than me, so I think the harsh lesson here is that you don't have to be a newbe to make costly mistakes. Hopefully some newbe's though can read this and if ever there was a doubt how important water conditioner is in their head, that doubt will vanish. In general I am not a promoter of specific products, but Prime is great stuff, and the best value I know of. Also Van's makes great durable shoes. Buy some Prime, buy some Van's and use both as needed. Just trying to add some levity to the down mood of this subject. But seriously Vans are great.


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 Post subject: Re: Fish smell.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:53 am 
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:shock: "wow.

I am very sorry to hear about your losses me and TR6.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:13 am 
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me";p="23685 wrote:
tr6";p="23661 wrote:
i did a 50% water change.. maybe i shocked them, maybe i forgot the PRIME, who knows.


Well on that note, I guess this is the time and place to tell everyone I also had a big loss about 2 weeks ago. It was a real bummer because I made it through the move with no casualties, but unfortunately one day I did a water change on my Mpimbwe tank which is the 150 gallon, and I can't remember why, but I had to take down the water level after filling it, but then decided it was too low, and added a bit extra. After all was said and done I probably did about 50% and I know for a fact I forgot the prime, now at my old place this would've been ok (relatively speaking) as the chlorine level is very low. Well unfortunately I didn't realize till it was too late that I had missed the prime, so I took the misses out for a very nice day looking at some of the very large and beautiful Waterfalls which are very close by, as well as some great scenic views of the Columbia. Came home in a good mood, looked in the tank, only to find 4 casualties, and one near death which I lost shortly after. That was 5 of 8 gone in less than 4 hours. Perfect health before. I did not post this earlier because I didn't know if the other three would make it, whether due to residual effects, or fighting, and I didn't want to post about a tragedy that just kept getting worse. One fish (smaller male) was nearly beaten to death by day 1 or 2 after the event. Moved him. Then about 1 1/2 weeks later the sole female was getting too beaten, so I swapped the only large male left into the small tank and the one that was beaten early on back in with the female (this was about 2 days ago). Now the female and small male are ragged from fighting the first night, at which time I put in my fryeri female as a dither, and things have calmed down. So goes my saga, and my direct understanding of yours TR6. It sucks, It Sucks, it sucks. It's has me on high alert with all my water changes now, and lesson learned about the water here. But what a harsh lesson.


Sorry I missed your story. Sorry for your losses. I have lost a couple of fronts in the past. I don't know what I would do if that had happen to me. I feel like crap when I lose one. Sorry to hear about this.

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2500 gallons and growing :D

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." –Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers


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Sorry for losses TR6 and ME.
We all know it sucks lossing fish.
I've lost too many fronts with 50% WC.
Again sorry for losses guys.

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WATCH YOUR THOUGHTS, THEY BECOME WORDS.
WATCH YOUR WORDS, THEY BECOME ACTIONS.
WATCH YOUR ACTIONS, THEY BECOME HABITS.
WATCH YOUR HABITS, THEY BECOME CHARACTER.
WATCH YOUR CHARACTER, IT BECOMES YOUR DESTINY.


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Why are people losing fish with 50% water change?

poison in the water?

Ph or TDS shock from not matching the new water?

Not aging the water? (too much dissolve oxygen)

Not putting dechlorinator?

What is the main reason? Is it that water companies so often put dangerous stuff in the water?


lexine";p="23726 wrote:
Sorry for losses TR6 and ME.
We all know it sucks lossing fish.
I've lost too many fronts with 50% WC.
Again sorry for losses guys.


Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:10 pm
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 Post subject: Re: Fish smell.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Quote:
Why are people losing fish with 50% water change?

poison in the water?

Ph or TDS shock from not matching the new water?

Not aging the water? (too much dissolve oxygen)

Not putting dechlorinator?

What is the main reason? Is it that water companies so often put dangerous stuff in the water?
Good question imo, but I don't think there's a single main reason people have problems. It could be any of the things you mention, plus some areas have high nitrates right from the tap or other problems... and I can't tell you how many times on forums I've seen people forget to dechlorinate or adjust ph, etc.

But while I agree with the others that 50% is more than really necessary as a routine water change (unless the tank is overstocked, overfed, underfiltered, etc.) I've done plenty of 50% and up to 80% water changes with no bad effects to the fish at all, never.

There are just way too many variables with local water and tank setups to make blanket rules about water changes and I don't believe in saying do it my way just because someone else forgets to add dechlorinator. But overall I agree that high volume water changes are usually not necessary.


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Dani3d";p="23735 wrote:
Why are people losing fish with 50% water change?

poison in the water?

Ph or TDS shock from not matching the new water?

Not aging the water? (too much dissolve oxygen)

Not putting dechlorinator?

What is the main reason? Is it that water companies so often put dangerous stuff in the water?


lexine";p="23726 wrote:
Sorry for losses TR6 and ME.
We all know it sucks lossing fish.
I've lost too many fronts with 50% WC.
Again sorry for losses guys.


It could be one of those you mention.
But one thing to remember every fish is different, some can handle the big changes some are not.

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WATCH YOUR THOUGHTS, THEY BECOME WORDS.
WATCH YOUR WORDS, THEY BECOME ACTIONS.
WATCH YOUR ACTIONS, THEY BECOME HABITS.
WATCH YOUR HABITS, THEY BECOME CHARACTER.
WATCH YOUR CHARACTER, IT BECOMES YOUR DESTINY.


Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:17 pm
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